The meeting begins at 8:30 a.m.
Mr. Luc Lainé from Wendake introduces himself and mentions that he will act as the moderator/facilitator for today’s meeting. He mentions that he was present at the Trois-Rivières meeting a year ago and looks forward to seeing the progress made on this file. He invites the Elder, Mr. Serge Loiselle, from the Odanak First Nation, to lead the opening prayer.
Opening Prayer
Prayer by Elder Mr. Serge Loiselle of the Odanak First Nation. He asks the audience for a few minutes of silence while praying that the Great Spirit guides the assembly in the work to be carried out today and advances the cause of First Nations.
Roundtable
The facilitator speaks again and invites all those present to state their names and the organization they represent as part of a roundtable. He takes the opportunity to introduce Ms. Linda Sioui, who will be taking notes during the meeting.
Preliminary Remarks
Chief Ghislain Picard thanks the Huron-Wendat Nation for hosting those present at this meeting on their territory, as well as the entire assembly for their presence. He greets them on behalf of Chief Lance Haymond, who was unable to be present today.
A special thank you is addressed to former Chief Allan Claxton for his presence, as Chief Picard is now convinced that there is life after politics (*laughter from the assembly*).
Chief Picard looks back to the year 2000 regarding the housing and infrastructure meeting that took place in Listuguj, recalling the findings of that preliminary work. He mentions that the report of that meeting confirmed the obvious need to do something regarding the housing file (state of crisis). Eighteen years later, First Nations are playing catch-up on this file. However, the current context seems favorable for this catch-up. He is pleased to see the presence of national representatives.
During the last meeting held in Trois-Rivières last year, all agreed that a strong “turn of the helm” was needed to provide the momentum necessary for catch-up and to equip communities and institutions. Today’s political context is much more favorable than it was about three years ago. This opportunity must be seized to realize the will to equip our communities and institutions and thus provide the necessary momentum.
He thanks all those whose knowledge and expertise contribute to guiding us and moving this file forward. During a future meeting in Ottawa, he will have the opportunity to meet the National Executive, which represents ten regions across the country, to promote our institutions in Quebec. According to him, it is entirely logical to proceed this way, with great pride. When Chief Picard looks at the institutions First Nations have established, he sees that this is the path to follow. He reminds the assembly that housing is a major priority, as well as an indicator of health among First Nations. He recalls the important contribution of Mr. Guy Latouche, resource person, who has been there since the very beginning.
Chief Picard recalls the shortfall of several thousand housing units. It would therefore be necessary to build many units to bridge this gap. This meeting also allows for the participation of several institutions, but it is necessary to conduct a thorough preliminary analysis to account for existing organizations and tribal councils. Today’s goal is to further this reflection, which can continue during future meetings. Chief Picard concludes by saying that despite the challenges, very good collaboration exists at the regional level, and the chiefs feel listened to by all partners of the tripartite table, in addition to being part of the solution. He mentions that he will be here for part of the day and wishes everyone a productive reflection.
Luc Lainé speaks again. He thanks Chief Picard and mentions the partners, giving the floor to Ms. Josée-Ann Paradis.
Ms. Paradis mentions that the meeting is a continuation of the Regional Housing Strategy initiated several years ago. Some recommendations found today were drawn from last year’s session. As Dale Booth mentioned, we had a very productive meeting last year. Work will continue, and Ms. Paradis announces a second housing mobilization session in November (date and logistics to be confirmed). The context is conducive to these meetings, and we must take advantage of it. She highlights the recent visit of a colleague from headquarters, Natalka Cmoc, who decided to visit Quebec as part of her national tour because the strength of Quebec depends on the passion of housing stakeholders to advance the files. She encourages everyone to continue the wonderful work in the established partnerships. She is pleased to recognize new faces and to be present today, along with her colleagues from Gatineau and Quebec, to advance the housing file.
Luc Lainé introduces Mr. Guy Latouche, resource person for housing and infrastructure at the AFNQL, and member of the Tripartite Committee on Housing.
Guy Latouche presents the context and the draft Regional Strategy on Housing and Infrastructure. He recalls that the mandate of the Tripartite Regional Committee consists of developing said Strategy and mentions that the group has set a two-year deadline to achieve this.
He ends his presentation, and Luc Lainé invites participants to ask their questions.
Dominique Collin offers a comment regarding the word “innovation”; funders have difficulty with this word. Secondly, he maintains that innovation will always be different from what we think. In his view, when talking about strategy, we must avoid being too specific about what that innovation will be; otherwise, we exclude possible solutions. What must be avoided is thinking that innovation will come from government structures. In society in general, innovation is the fruit of interaction between governments, markets, and civil society. If we always bring everything back into the government fold, we risk not being able to innovate. He invites reflection on the role of markets and individuals in our attempts to structure the innovation in question.
Ms. Paradis mentions having read Guy Latouche’s presentation regarding the Strategy and questioned him about it. In her view, the current situation is good in terms of funding and investments made in housing. A presentation will be made later in the day by the representative from British Columbia regarding their institution. She asks everyone to keep in mind this favorable horizon for thinking outside the box and staying there, and to remember the context and schedule of the Government of Canada, as well as the investments and budgets granted over the last three years. Regarding governance, it would be good for Quebec to align with this national momentum.
Mr. Odjick mentions that there was talk earlier about developing a territorial or community base. He says there are two Algonquin communities thinking of opting for reserve status or traditional territory status. He mentions that these communities are currently penalized because of their current status, which prevents them from further developing their lots and housing infrastructure (water, sewage, others). One of them does not even have water or sewage infrastructure and is located only two hours from Ottawa. These people live out of a central building to take showers and do laundry. He asks if there is a way to bypass these inconveniences without having to wait for reserve status. He concludes by welcoming any suggestions. Thank you!
Guy Latouche responds that issues of allocations and territories are thorny. He says he knows the cases Mr. Odjick is referring to. There has been a lot of improvement regarding additions to reserve lands. During the past year, he mentions having said it was a ten-year process, though there have been many improvements over the years. On the government side, there is now a policy in place that is more user-friendly to assist First Nations in their process. Discussions must be undertaken between the parties involved, adding a dose of goodwill to move forward.
Chief Ghislain Picard thanks Mr. Odjick for this important question. He recounts that when he gets a response from government representatives, he can no longer stand hearing that it is a complex issue, and maintains that this issue should be brought to the Table of Chiefs, along with the examples cited. The issue of additions to reserve lands is a very complex matter to handle at the government level, but it must be addressed. He mentions knowing which specific community Mr. Odjick is referring to and says he has already been there. Furthermore, many solutions reside within the community, and if the issue were brought to the Table of Chiefs, it could probably be handled there to find potential options, despite it being much broader. Turning to the tripartite table would mean being limited by the criteria or regulations we are familiar with today. A discussion could be started within this process to see how far we could go. Chief Picard mentions that he is taking notes on what has been said and highlights that eventually, this question could be raised in the next meeting.
Luc Lainé introduces the next item on the agenda, which consists of three presentations regarding the second axis, Skills and Capacities, after which there will be a break. He invites the representative of the First Nations Adult Education School Council, Ms. Rola Helou, who introduces Tanu Lusignan, who will proceed with the first presentation, as well as his colleague, Mr. Patrick Robertson.
At the end of Mr. Lusignan’s presentation, Luc Lainé asks if there are any questions. As there are no questions, he gives the floor to Mr. Patrick Robertson, who will present on the community of practice in Mashteuiatsh.
Patrick Robertson mentions the desire to offer their youth work market experience (housing managers). He says it is a human network eager to work together for the well-being of our communities. The community has a platform that allows exchanges between members (numbering 120). People have a direct link to their workplace (questions and exchanges). There is also a section on partners. In short, the objective is for each member to recharge, collaborate, and exchange. It reflects what housing officers encounter in the field. A total of about forty housing officers are on-site, and they are laying the same foundations as what is being done today in this meeting, except it is happening at the housing officer level.
A short video presentation follows. Afterward, Patrick Robertson looks at what could be exchanged on a national scale. He evokes the possibility for this community of practice to expand nationally.
Luc Lainé thanks the representatives of the First Nations Adult Education School Council and introduces Ms. Deborah Taylor from the First Nations Market Housing Fund. Ms. Taylor mentions that her presentation is currently being translated and will be sent to everyone as soon as possible.
Following Ms. Taylor’s presentation, Luc Lainé asks if there are any questions.
Ms. Paradis refers to Guy Latouche’s presentation regarding the fact that language represents an obstacle in Quebec and asks if Ms. Taylor’s organization works mostly only with English-speaking communities.
Ms. Taylor mentions that indeed, the majority of communities in Quebec that her organization works with are English-speaking, but they also serve French-speaking communities; they have bilingual employees.
Before the break, Luc Lainé introduces Messrs. Allan Claxton and Dale Booth from the First Nations Infrastructure Institute (FNII).
Mr. Claxton mentions to Chief Picard that indeed, there is life after politics: it’s called infrastructure. He mentions that all communities have infrastructure needs and that it is impossible to do worse than Canada. His role consists of supporting chiefs, communities, and regions. He leaves it to Dale Booth to give the presentation.
With that, Mr. Dale Booth recognizes the Huron-Wendat Nation, host of this meeting, and proceeds with his presentation.
Following his presentation on infrastructure, Luc Lainé asks if there are any questions.
A question is asked whether Mr. Booth plans to create a national institute responsible for accreditation in Canada, or rather the creation of regional infrastructure institutes?
Dale Booth responds that they are starting something. They are in British Columbia now and are looking at the issue on a national level. But they are considering creating a regional institution. So, how would that be realized here in Quebec? That is a good question and we will mention it. How do we see the establishment of regional organizations while aligning with what FNII does during the development period? How can we benefit from what they do while being informed as the file evolves?
We would like to see someone from this region and from each region sit on the development committee because we still have much to do. We want FNII to become an autonomous institute. This would largely stem from the development committee, through regions guiding us on how they want to operate.
Are there any other questions?
Guy Latouche: We understand that the FNII is under development. The three projects in Ontario you spoke of—under which organization are they found?
Dale Booth: I apologize. I was simply using that example to illustrate, to demonstrate that currently, provinces are actively involved with Indigenous communities and their real estate projects. And that is happening now as we move forward. So, we are witnessing regional developments through the provinces. Doing so gives us greater visibility for large infrastructure developments, and the opportunities will be there. I used that example to illustrate that the iron is hot right now when we talk about infrastructure development and Indigenous communities.
Luc Lainé thanks the people who gave presentations as well as Mr. Booth and invites the assembly to take a fifteen-minute break. Afterward, an activity led by the First Nations Adult Education School Council.
10:30 a.m.: 15-minute Break
10:45 a.m.: Meeting Resumes
Luc Lainé mentions the holding of an activity led by the School Council on adult education (Ms. Rola Helou).
Ms. Helou explains the first activity, which consists of a survey to discover the training being given in the regions.
1) Survey: on a map representing the location of First Nations communities, participants are invited to stick an adhesive tab (post-it) on the relevant community, indicating the training given there. Participants will stick said tabs on the sides in cases where the training does not concern a specific community. This is also applicable to national training.
Orange tabs: for training already offered and intended for housing officers and/or managers.
Pink tabs: for training intended for residents (tenants and/or owners).
Blue-green tabs: for training intended for elected officials.
Participants will have five to ten minutes to identify training by sticking their tabs on the map. Tabs can also be stuck throughout the morning if ideas do not come immediately.
In conclusion of the activity, Ms. Helou notes that there is a lot of regional training being given.
2) The goal of the second activity is to know the skills and abilities of leaders, housing officers, tenants, or owners, to contribute to the growth of housing communities and determine how we can be innovative. What are the skills required to get our leaders, housing managers, and tenants to where they need to be in the future? What are the training needs?
Participants will be divided into three groups and, while discussing, they must answer certain questions concerning skills and abilities. Participants are encouraged to think outside the box as much as they want.
Return to plenary.
Report from Group 1 (Robin St-Onge):
- Everything should start with funding (rent, bad debts, etc.) and the effects and consequences on the community (beneficiaries), which brings a certain awareness;
- The “how-to-live” in a house (appliances, etc.), system maintenance (Occupant’s Manual), as well as tools. A certain education of the population to learn budget management;
- Financial literacy training, as explained by Mickel Robertson;
- It is important to sensitize the population to urban planning rules, beneficiaries’ responsibilities, and have housing preservation policies. This education must start at a young age (in school), explained and instilled early and broadly;
- The band council should be a model: identify steps to become an owner (needs assessment). Future owners should be accompanied (home literacy);
- Establish a link between housing and occupant health, the importance of maintenance, etc.;
- How to deal with authorities (reaching the clientele). Develop a means to disseminate information;
- Every subject is taboo and not discussed openly. The air needs to be cleared. This would be a good step forward. Discuss openly;
- Accountability, and going out to the people.
Report from Group 2 (Patrick Robertson):
- Issue of housing policies (revisions, updates, policy information);
- Get to know their housing stocks, what exists;
- Training on the separation of politics from administration with candidates, not only before elections but also after;
- Coach elected officials on government programs and existing funds to learn concepts in the housing world;
- Learn their own policies and inform them of what exists elsewhere (other communities);
- Have governance training to become better managers, to be sensitized;
- Break away from what already exists (innovation);
- For elected officials and managers: have portals, information sites to disseminate and inform the population;
- Possibilities of tribal councils that can support band councils;
- Training in legal ethics;
- Understand the financial impacts of decisions, as well as the consequences and impacts of those decisions;
- Sensitize to listening to field personnel;
- Common regional strategy on how to train elected officials;
- Toolbox to improve what already exists for elected officials (for example, what is the role of each?);
- Orientation sessions at the policy level.
Report from Group 3 (Tanu Lusignan: Training for managers):
- Overview of needs for housing managers. Expectations are very high for managers (we expect housing managers to know everything and be specialists in several fields, for example: finance, dealing with clientele, public speaking, engineering, construction, etc.). Expectations are too high. Consequently, the need to plan and identify resources in place by the organization that will structure and help housing managers in their daily tasks. Use the expertise of your finance director (for questions related to financial management), use the expertise of the operations and maintenance sector (infrastructure, capital assets) in house construction and perhaps create renewable energy for these houses. These are things found at the community level, and tools already exist through ISC (perhaps the comprehensive community plan) that can be shared with directors or housing managers;
- Need to look at previous work carried out by the “defunct” National Association of Housing Managers. We could see what was done and try to understand what didn’t work. We could use what worked without reinventing the wheel to save time. Let’s learn from this former organization about what was done in developing best practices;
- Housing managers: identify what is being done in Quebec. Not only in terms of training but by making existing tools available through the network so they can easily access information and develop their skills. Take a look at regional inspections; this is already happening. A certification for housing managers is now offered in CEGEPs;
- Promote education for our youth in the fields of financial administration, plumbing, welding, etc., to develop our skills.
Ms. Helou: Thank you! There is much food for thought for housing managers currently working in communities, as well as those to come. We will take this information, talk to Guy to know what we will do with this data, and inform you of our discussions.
We have one last activity before letting you go for lunch. Due to time constraints, we will remain in one group. We ask you to put forward ideas of what you would like to do regarding training. For example, what would be the opportunities that would help us establish this training to develop the skills of leaders, housing managers, and tenants within the next two years? Additionally, what are our limitations, our constraints to achieving these objectives? Chief Picard mentioned that the current political context represents a wonderful opportunity to realize these things. What other opportunities are presented to us? Feel free to share your ideas; indicate if it is an opportunity or a constraint. Patrick has volunteered to take notes.
- Prudence Hannis (Kiuna): we must take advantage of the training institutions we have (secondary and post-secondary) and training opportunities that consider the realities and specificities of communities;
- Véronique Lebuis: we must recall the existence of the community of practice, which provides a foundation for this system we were talking about;
- Serge Loiselle: as a constraint, not all communities have reached the same stage of development;
- Guy Latouche: for managers, training-work-family balance is a challenge that is not insurmountable. We have proof with the AEC (which also has its limitations). As long as we are with people who remain employed, this represents a challenge. We want to train successors, and that remains a great challenge, perhaps even a constraint. Additionally, regional tables represent another opportunity for managers. As for elected officials, if they are not sensitized, if they do not have the improvement of their community’s fate at heart, it remains a constraint;
- Deborah Taylor: one of the challenges consists of funding and commitment to long-term training because it won’t happen in a day during the current fiscal year. The community must be prepared for someone to take two or three years to obtain the training you would want them to have. Also, change (staff turnover) represents a challenge, given the nature of the requirements and due to the fact that people change jobs within communities;
- Vince Klyne: one of the challenges we face is knowing if we are making a difference. How can we know that, regardless of the resources we invest in training and skill development to get from point A to point B? How can we get there? How do we know if we are making a difference within communities? How do we know if we are developing skills and doing what is necessary to reach our goals?
- Prudence Hannis: at Kiuna, we have student residences. After eight years of operation, the issue consists of sensitizing and raising awareness among young people (for whom it’s their first time in an apartment) arriving, in terms of budget management, respect for the apartment, and roommates. We have almost eliminated bad debts. We used student residences as an example: costs, depreciation of equipment and furniture, we integrated that into our introductory administration courses, as well as the impact of late payments. Thus, we could see an improvement because it’s linked to their environment and they were able to handle real data.
Ms. Helou asks if this training would be available elsewhere for communities? Prudence responds that we would have to see with the administration teacher.
- Bruce Labrador: I’m going to be the agent provocateur: the mindset we should be in when we talk about a housing strategy—we talk about thinking outside the box, but we seem to have both feet in the box and want to stay there. With all the expertise around the table, we are capable of going elsewhere. This is a golden opportunity we must seize. I just want to shake the tree a bit and see what we think.
- Dominique Collin: without minimizing the importance of courses and the profession of stakeholders, in response to your provocation, housing officers have a lot on their plate because we ask them for multiple types of expertise. No one is capable of meeting that. What is important is to train good generalists and invest heavily in specialized expertise with training (e.g., at the national, regional, tribal, community level) that they can refer to as needed. Chiefs have high expectations. It is very important to reflect on how we support housing officers and avoid over-professionalizing the position so as not to eliminate very good field stakeholders.
- Question to Bruce Labrador: why do you think that in 2018, we are having the same conversations as in 2005?
- Bruce Labrador: indeed, it’s a challenge and we are responsible for it. We are in a wind of change and no one can deny this fact. Innovative challenges, thinking outside the box—there is a will to do it, but how are we going to go about it? With all our expertise, let’s look to the future. How can we get there together? This is a first. Everyone in their field can bring something.
- What I understood from your intervention is that we are repeating ourselves now, compared to 2005. That there were discussions but nothing was implemented. It’s about finding why there was no implementation and why we are still talking about the same errors or things repeating now (for example, the issue of funding). If we talk about the housing problem, it’s clear that the level of funding has been capped. On the issue of management, stock management, tenant management (rents and finances), why are we doing the same exercise again?
Ms. Helou mentions the skills and capacity strategy (within two years). It’s about being very proactive, and we will have an action plan in two years if we reach our goals.
Notes have been taken, and the next step consists of holding these discussions in the field with all people involved, then proposing a plan for implementation.
Ms. Helou ends the meeting in preparation for lunch.
Luc Lainé mentions that lunch is served outside the room and that upon return, there will be a presentation by Mickel Robertson from the First Nations of Quebec and Labrador Economic Development Commission (FNQLEDC).
12 p.m.: Lunch
1:20 p.m.: Meeting Resumes
Luc Lainé introduces Mickel Robertson, Director General of the First Nations of Quebec and Labrador Economic Development Commission. The latter presents his organization, its mandates, governance, operations, and involvement in housing among First Nations.
Luc Lainé does not invite questions, given the delay on the agenda. He introduces the next workshop, which consists of reading the scenario and answering questions distributed to each of the three groups (participants are divided into three groups).
Back at 2:30 p.m. for the break.
2:30 p.m.: Break
3:05 p.m.: Meeting Resumes
Luc Lainé introduces Mr. Martin Légaré from SÉDAC (First Nations Savings Society of Canada), who presents his organization.
Following Mr. Légaré’s presentation, Luc Lainé introduces Ms. Suzie Nepton from the FNQLHSSC for a presentation on the First Nations health and social services governance process in Quebec. Ms. Nepton says her presentation in both languages will be sent to participants by email.
At the end of Ms. Nepton’s presentation, Luc Lainé thanks her. He asks if the assembly has any questions.
Bruce Labrador: lesson learned. A large amount of work has been carried out. We must take reasonable deadlines into account.
Suzie Nepton mentions that we must respect the communities’ deadlines and their pace. Communities want to take their time to reflect and not feel pressure.
Guy Latouche mentions that there is a last workshop with the same subgroups as before. The return to plenary for the conclusion of the day will be at 4:30 p.m.
4:30 p.m.: Return to Plenary
Luc Lainé mentions that this presentation concludes the day’s work. He gives the floor to Guy Latouche, who thanks the assembly and mentions that a report of the workshops will be sent to all. These notes will be used tomorrow by the Tripartite Committee, which will work in this direction.
Ms. Paradis highlights that funding will be released for holding a meeting like last year’s in Trois-Rivières. This meeting will take place from November 27 to 29.
Luc Lainé thanks everyone and ends the work session.
The meeting ends at 4:40 p.m.
Annex: Collected Interventions
Workshop on Funding and Financial Management
Question 1: What concrete opportunities do modern funding tools offer in the specific context of First Nations?
Question 2: What partnerships can be considered with private sector companies and other levels of government to increase housing and infrastructure development opportunities?
Question 3 : How to integrate the actions of the various partners to maximize local benefits (economic and other)?
Question 4a : What are the prerequisites and avenues to explore to better meet the needs of First Nations members living in communities?
Question 4b: What are the prerequisites and avenues to explore to better meet the needs of First Nations members living outside the communities?
Question 4a: What are the prerequisites and avenues to explore to better meet the needs of First Nations members living in the communities?
and
Question 4b: What are the prerequisites and avenues to explore to better meet the needs of First Nations members living outside the communities?
Workshop on Governance and Service Delivery
Question 1a: What are the best options available to First Nations regarding institutional development related to a possible transfer of housing and infrastructure jurisdiction:
- at the local level?
- at the tribal level?
- at the regional level?
- at the national level?
and
Question 1b: What are the spheres of responsibilities to be prioritized at each of these levels:
- at the local level?
- at the tribal level?
- at the regional level?
- at the national level?
Question 2 : How to integrate governance and housing delivery to members living outside their community?