Minutes of the Mobilization Session, Quebec City, 2018

Mobilization Session – Regional Strategy on Housing and Infrastructure

 

November 27-28-29, 2018

Hôtel Le Bonne Entente

Sainte-Foy, Quebec

(You will find the list of participants in Appendix 1).

 

Tuesday, November 27, 2018 – 9:10 a.m.

 

The meeting begins at 9:10 a.m.

Luc Lainé, from Wendake, welcomes everyone and introduces the “young elder,” Jean-Pierre Petiquay, from Wemotaci, who leads the opening prayer.

 

Opening Prayer

Mr. Jean-Pierre Petiquay mentions that he is happy to be a “young elder” and invites participants to take a moment of reflection while philosophizing on the importance of looking toward the past to know where to head in the future and to know if one is ready to go there. He wishes everyone a good meeting.

 

Preliminary Remarks

Luc Lainé welcomes all participants from the communities, levels of government, and housing-related organizations. He invites people to look at the agenda, which is based on the three main axes of the strategy:

• Funding and financial management;
• Skills and capacities;
• Governance and service delivery.

 

He mentions the interactive nature of the following day’s meeting.

He informs the assembly of an important event to put on the agenda for the next day at 5:00 p.m.: the graduation ceremony for the second cohort of graduates in Housing Management Technology.

He mentions the housing-related booths outside, then invites Chief Ghislain Picard, from the AFNQL, to speak.

Chief Picard thanks the young elder for his prayer as well as Luc Lainé. He thanks the Huron-Wendat Nation for receiving us on its territory and notes the presence of Mr. Luc Dumont, Regional Director of Indigenous Services Canada (ISC), Chief Lance Haymond (housing portfolio holder), and other elected officials present in large numbers to discuss this priority file for our Nations.

He mentions that the Trois-Rivières meeting kicked off the effort to reverse a concerning situation that has lasted for several years: the housing shortage among First Nations. He states that the context is currently more favorable for change and that it is up to us to improve things.

Chief Picard reports on the 2000 meeting in Listuguj, which resulted in a housing report presented to the chiefs. This report noted a shortage of 7,000 housing units in Quebec alone. He mentions that First Nations have made progress since then, but not enough. A major transformation process is currently underway; we currently have a “good recipe” thanks to the work of the Regional Tripartite Committee on Housing (RTCH) and Chief Lance Haymond, the portfolio holder.

During the last meeting, Chief Picard stressed the importance of expanding mobilization so that everyone shares the same overall picture. In 2019, such an exercise is planned to see how the federal transformation exercise will impact our communities. This is quite an open meeting. Chief Picard makes a side note regarding regional commissions and the fact that none exist for housing and home-building. It would be important to consider this, given that this issue has a serious impact on several spheres of First Nations life.

Chief Picard invites participants to highlight the efforts of the students in housing management technology during the graduation ceremony tomorrow. He hopes everyone will be present to support them. He concludes by mentioning that there is a large catch-up to be done in housing and wishes everyone a good meeting.

Luc Lainé thanks Chief Picard and introduces Chief Lance Haymond, responsible for the Housing file.

Chief Lance Haymond speaks and mentions that he is the Chief of the community of Kebaowek, as well as the regional portfolio holder for housing and infrastructure. He also serves as co-chair of the national Chiefs’ committee with Kevin Hart.

He emphasizes the importance of this meeting to guide the strategy and invites participants to get involved by providing comments so the work of meeting regional needs can be accomplished. He recognizes the presence of the elder and his prayer and thanks the Huron-Wendat Nation for welcoming us to its ancestral territory.

Chief Haymond recalls that this meeting coincides with the engagement session held in Trois-Rivières (reform on housing and infrastructure). In its 2016 budget, the Government of Canada committed, along with other partners, to developing long-term solutions to support housing and infrastructure in First Nations communities and thus contribute to a broader national strategy on First Nations housing and infrastructure.

The goal of the meeting is to continue the discussion on reform started in Trois-Rivières. He adds that this group is in a position to influence decisions made at the national level and that, consequently, all comments resulting from this meeting are indispensable. He is happy to note the presence of several chiefs and councilors, considering the importance of the issue.

In his view, it is necessary to ensure that the reform is not just a devolution of services. He stresses the importance of understanding the process that will be put in place and the skills that will be necessary to move forward. He notes the presence of housing specialists. He highlights that in Quebec, a tripartite committee, on which the AFNQL sits, has been formed and meets regularly. This committee discusses housing and infrastructure issues (joint strategies and work plans) and encourages collaboration at the national level.

He states that a regional strategy on housing and infrastructure will be developed within two years. This morning, the current draft results directly from the talks at the meeting held in Trois-Rivières last year and, as mentioned, it will be presented to you for comment. In Quebec, we focus on skills development, and each region of Canada establishes its own priorities.

At the national level, Chief Haymond is co-chair and stresses that the national strategy will have the necessary flexibility to consider regional strategies, as well as varied expectations and needs. Consequently, the directions for First Nations housing in Quebec will come from First Nations in Quebec.

The draft national strategy was presented during a housing symposium organized by the AFNQL last week in Vancouver, and it will be presented to chiefs from across Canada next week in Ottawa as part of the special chiefs’ assembly.

Regarding the Vancouver forum, Chief Haymond and Guy Latouche presented the draft regional strategy and welcomed comments. It emerged that skills development is our priority. This involves doing what is necessary to put in place the essential conditions for the control and management of infrastructure. Chief Haymond believes we are doing what is needed to put the pieces in the right places so our approach to housing has greater cohesion.

At the national level, data collection will begin soon. Chief Haymond mentions the importance of collecting our own regional data to develop strategic solutions. This is the fourth data collection, and he counts on everyone’s collaboration during this necessary step for better positioning at the national level.

Then, he addresses the issue of inspections. A few years ago, the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation (CMHC) unilaterally decided to hand this file over to the private sector. This created a lot of confusion and threatened jobs. The issue of French and English in Quebec created further difficulties. However, the chiefs and tribal councils worked to present CMHC with a process to take charge of these important services to better serve our communities. Chief Haymond mentions that the latest proposal presented by the Mamuitun Tribal Council is likely accepted and that these services will henceforth fall under our tribal councils.

In conclusion, he thanks the secretaries and employees of the AFNQL office, as well as the members of the tripartite committee who worked hard to make this regional meeting a success for everyone. He thanks Guy Latouche for his work ensuring we have our materials and that the meetings are well prepared. He ends by wishing the participants a good meeting.

Luc Lainé thanks Chief Lance Haymond and introduces Luc Dumont, Regional Director of Indigenous Services Canada.

Mr. Dumont mentions the great importance of the housing issue for all those present and recalls the Trois-Rivières meeting in September 2017. He speaks of the productivity of that session and highlights that this meeting directly addresses the concerns expressed, namely the need to develop a draft regional strategy as well as a complete overhaul of the Regional Tripartite Committee on Housing (RTCH) Action Plan. In the same breath, he stresses the importance of the housing issue for the Prime Minister’s Office. Last week, members of the Privy Council Office had the opportunity to exchange with members of the regional committee and conduct an in-depth analysis of the housing issue. Thus, RTCH members had the opportunity to share Indigenous housing issues with representatives from ISC and CMHC.

Mr. Dumont mentions that they presented all the elements necessary for future success. He introduced the idea of a sustained partnership to the Privy Council Office. This is an important element. Other important elements include skills development, funding, and governance. These are key elements in finding solutions.

Mr. Dumont speaks of the importance and indispensable nature of the RTCH’s work to get things moving. With the data, Quebec is well-positioned. He states that the work done has allowed for the formulation of short-, medium-, and long-term suggestions. Quebec’s issues are sometimes similar to those of other regions and sometimes different.

In closing, he wishes everyone a good meeting.

Luc Lainé mentions that photos will be taken during the three days of the meeting. For those who do not wish to be photographed, please inform Marie-Josée Belleau.

He introduces Linda Sioui, who is taking notes. He asks speakers to state their names and introduces Guy Latouche for context on the draft regional strategy on housing and infrastructure.

 

Context and Presentation of the Draft Regional Strategy on Housing and Infrastructure (Guy Latouche)

(PowerPoint Presentation).

Guy Latouche finishes his presentation and Luc Lainé speaks again, providing a brief retrospective in conclusion. He invites the audience to ask questions.

Martine Bruneau (Abitibiwinni – Pikogan): First, the committee is composed of ISC, CMHC, and the AFNQL, is that correct?

Guy Latouche answers yes.

Martine Bruneau asks who represents the people from the communities?

Guy Latouche clarifies that the Tripartite Committee existed in the 1980s. Initially, it was a committee on the allocation of CMHC funds. It evolved over the years to become, in 2005, a “higher level” committee. It is composed of directors from CMHC and ISC. Regarding First Nations, Chief Lance Haymond, the housing and infrastructure portfolio holder, is a member of the Tripartite Committee. It is structured into two parts: there are the three members in authority, namely the two directors—the Director of Housing and Infrastructure at ISC (Bruce Labrador) and the Director of the Quebec-Atlantic Regional Office for CMHC (Vince Kline)—and Chief Lance Haymond. These are our three members in authority. Along with them, we have accompanying members forming the operational committee composed of people from the department, CMHC, and myself.

Martine Bruneau: Could one of us, who are part of the CoPH (Community of Practice in Housing), be part of it to serve as a reminder of community needs?

Guy Latouche: I think so, and that is an excellent suggestion. Working groups as well. Sometimes we have tasks given to us by our members in authority; we develop various things and any help would be welcome. The invitation is open; just get back to us on that.

Martine Bruneau: I will certainly remember that. Regarding the Waskahegen Corporation in Pikogan, if you want Waskahegen housing, you have to prove you have lived off-community for six months. We have members who do not meet this criterion. Perhaps your committee should meet with them and look into modifying their criteria. There are Quebecers currently living in these units when they should be Indigenous. It’s a shame. Could you meet with them and talk to them about it?

Guy Latouche: Yes, it is in our plans to meet with them and with the SHQ (Société d’habitation du Québec) as well as other off-reserve housing stakeholders. These are concerns that have been expressed many times by chiefs and councilors. To our knowledge, there are no chiefs or councilors sitting on their board of directors. These are houses for First Nations, but without First Nations being involved in the decisions.

Luc Lainé asks if there are any other questions or comments before the break, after which Bruce Labrador (ISC) will provide a regional update.

 

10:35 a.m.: Break

10:59 a.m.: Meeting Resumes

Luc Lainé introduces two participants from ISC, Bruce Labrador and André Dansereau, and two from CMHC, Vince Klyne and Marie-Claude Cantin, for a regional update. Questions will follow each of the two presentations.

Bruce Labrador provides an overview of the past year and reports on achievements. He presents a regional pilot project, supported by the national level, to develop housing circuit riders (itinerant trainers). This project could later be exported. He adds that the technical resources group (in collaboration with the two trainers: Alain Murray and Serge Bouchard) helped implement the Cogiweb software in certain communities. In the coming year, the deployment of Cogiweb in communities will be emphasized.

Another achievement involves the overhaul of the Tripartite Committee on Housing action plan. Following last year’s discussions, expressed priorities were integrated into the action plan as a result of the discussions held in Trois-Rivières. So, things have evolved very well.

Last September in Wendake, all partners (AFNQL, tribal councils, the First Nations Savings Society of Canada – SEDAC, AFNQL commissions, Kiuna Institution) gave their support for the implementation of the regional strategy. This was a first, as all were gathered to discuss housing as a priority together.

Bruce Labrador also mentions having continued to work closely with SEDAC. He highlights the excellent work done in the past year, especially regarding access to private capital and the community of Pikogan. This is a giant step in the right direction for all communities and suggests the possibility of accessing private property.

Another achievement consists of setting up, in collaboration with SEDAC, an infrastructure fund primarily aimed at developing residential lots in communities. The fact that some communities could not benefit from established initiatives due to a lack of lots available for construction was a major irritant. Consequently, an access to capital fund was put in place for this purpose. This year, ISC is working with Opitciwan, and next year, they will open it to other communities.

Last fall, Bruce Labrador mentions having had the chance to accompany a national team as part of a new initiative: the housing innovation lab. The website is already online. This is a project that otherwise would not have fit within ISC’s standards, criteria, and guidelines. It is a fine example of an innovative, “outside the box” initiative and a new way of doing things and delivering programs.

He mentions the collaborators from Laval University (Mr. Casault and Ms. Vachon from the School of Architecture) present in Trois-Rivières last year and their presentation of many innovative housing concepts. In talking with Mr. Casault and considering the work done over the last twenty years, it appears that no concrete projects emerged in the field due to a lack of funding and criteria. In this regard, the innovation fund could be interesting for communities and could be available for the next three years.

He congratulates the second cohort of students who will receive their diplomas tomorrow and encourages those enrolling for the third cohort.

He concludes by mentioning the 2018 budget and the $600 million investment for the next 3 years, or $200 million per year, starting this year (2018-2019). Regarding funding proposals and the considerable preparatory work they represent, Mr. Labrador mentions that he has streamlined the contingency list. He then gives the floor to André Dansereau.

André Dansereau thanks people for their presence. He recalls the two-year 2016 budget (the housing initiative, 2016 and 2017), which left people in uncertainty about what would follow. Regarding the 2005 budget, it was only there for two years. Later came the economic action plan, which was also two or three years. He notes that there is always a gap between ad hoc initiatives from one action plan to another.

In 2018, the federal government seems to be making continuous funding efforts for five years, which is very good for sustainability and for reducing the needs curve. He mentions that ISC plans to launch a call for proposals. He mentions that his department is currently planning with partners what is intended for the coming years, following discussions with headquarters. The components are often the same: construction, renovation, lot preparation. Since 2016, there have been two new components that remain and echo the draft regional strategy: the capacity development axis and the innovation component. This should continue for the next two years. Discussions with headquarters are going well, and they are very open. He ensures he wants the components to meet a wider range of needs. In this sense, flexibility and diversity are the watchwords.

There is also the matter of ensuring respect for project cycles. It is desirable to do the preparation and everything necessary before the next construction season.

Mr. Dansereau suggests using the framework of the budget initiative, specifically the way projects are presented, and to start looking at everything today in preparation for next year. Communities will be asked to submit a project for the next two years (two-year planning). This is a good time to start preparing applications. He concludes by mentioning that he and the people from CMHC are available for any questions and notes that the call for proposals will be launched after the holidays.

Luc Lainé calls for questions from the audience.

Chief David Kistabish (Abitibiwinni – Pikogan): We are talking about various topics (private property, skills development, etc.); however, we have limited capacities as a community. For example, regarding lot expansion: we have no more room for new construction. Our last expansion dates back to 2015. There is an urgent need at this level. When will this be unblocked? I would like an answer on that.

Bruce Labrador: When I presented the initiative for lot development in communities, previously it was in the base budget. Costs are rising and a gap is widening. Some communities could not build due to a lack of space. We hope that in the next three or four years, with SEDAC, we can create lot banks. Over the next few years, there will be improvement.

Chief David Kistabish (Abitibiwinni – Pikogan): Houses are overcrowded, and it is difficult to wait any longer. It is among the priorities, and when I hear “in the next few years,” we need to find a way to speed things up.

Bruce Labrador: When I say “a few years,” I am being honest, and that is how long it will take. We can talk with Martine Bruneau to see what can be done in your specific community.

Martine Bruneau: She asks why some communities receive 100 lots and others receive nothing? Base budgets go to salaries and not lot development. She speaks of underfunding and the fact that her community does not have the necessary machinery. She asks what happens to the old proposals submitted in the past? Where are they on the priority list? She states she feels set aside without being able to move forward. She is told to write the word “water” in her application, but with no result. She wonders why move on to new proposals when others have not been answered.

Bruce Labrador: He mentions that in terms of lot development, the base budget used to address that. Following the Opitciwan pilot project, a report will be issued to see how the whole thing could apply starting in April. For the community of Pikogan, it will be possible to go there to see what can be done in the near future.

Chief Adrienne Jérôme (Lac Simon): This participant notes some administrative burdens from CMHC regarding communities. She asks how much it costs to administer CMHC? She asks if First Nations can have their own office (commission) for housing. She stresses the excellence of services with First Nations organizations and recalls the crying needs in Lac Simon. This community has 500 children, 3 daycares, and 200 youth in high school. Many communities are in the same situation, and it is largely women who suffer the consequences, as they are the pillar of the family. They do not file complaints in cases of violence for fear of losing their housing. In her view, additional funding would solve many things. She raises the possibility that CMHC has too much to do and mentions that “it takes more than that.”

Luc Lainé mentions that this is the process we are engaged in across the country: taking charge of housing. He adds that Chief Jérôme’s comments are very useful and demonstrate the urgency of acting. It is clear that the housing program must be taken over by First Nations and asks the Chief to continue her participation, as it will certainly be required.

Luc Lainé introduces Vince Klyne and Marie-Claude Cantin from CMHC. He mentions that the community of Ekuanitshit will present a short video during lunch about the sustainable development summit.

Mr. Klyne presents the Vision for Housing in Canada.

(PowerPoint Presentation – National Housing Strategy (CMHC)).

Following his presentation, Vince Klyne gives the floor to Marie-Claude Cantin from the same organization. She works in the policy and research, mobilization, and knowledge sector (Innovation and Research component).

(PowerPoint Presentation).

At the end of her presentation, Luc Lainé invites questions.

Martine Bruneau: My question concerns the $211 million allocated to housing research. What does this research consist of?

Marie-Claude Cantin: In fact, it is $241 million over the next ten years. It is to collect more data to have better information to better understand needs. This will help us develop better programs and policies.

Josée-Anne Paradis (ISC): Thank you very much for your presentation. A lot of information was shared in a very brief period. I was very impressed by your presentation and all the programs and services you presented, particularly by the $14 billion intended for the housing continuum, as this addresses the many needs in Indigenous communities. It goes without saying that this is welcome. Furthermore, you mentioned “navigating” the programs in terms of skills (which represent a main component of the strategy). First Nations will need many skills to “navigate,” as you will agree. How will our First Nations have access to the toolbox? Because it is always the same people who prepare the documents and applications. How can we make these programs more accessible to First Nations?

Vince Klyne: This information is available on the CMHC website. We have our database and with the launch of the national strategy, we are adding more information. We are here to listen to what the First Nations’ needs are and try to see how our programs can adjust, in collaboration with housing technicians in the communities. We have four people with us today besides Marie-Claude and myself. They are François Sauvageau, Jean-François Samuel, François Lachance, and Ina Wielinga. Along with me, they are available to help you with the process.

Luc Lainé notes that detailed information on all the Innovation and Research programs presented by CMHC was recently shared by the AFNQL.

Adrienne Jérôme: Asks how much CMHC’s administration costs and notes that a lot of research is being done. What must we do to get things moving? $240 million was transferred to research, and these funds, among others, could have benefited Indigenous communities. Is this research conducted in the communities? Administration represents a lot of money. I am concerned about what remains for the communities.

Marie-Claude Cantin: The research budget is around $240 million out of $40 billion; it is small. Research is necessary to have better knowledge to make good decisions. This will help us find concrete solutions.

Vince Klyne: This is the largest investment the government has made in housing. This $40 billion is for all Canadians. This is the large National Housing Strategy (for all of Canada), and there are distinct components for First Nations, Métis, and Inuit that address their specific needs. These strategies are still in development, but they are complementary. This research is necessary because, as part of the housing reform, we must know what the housing needs will be in terms of capacities and human resources for First Nations when everything is transferred. This is a well-documented and well-known issue in our RTCH work plan, and we do not have enough human resources to deliver these programs.

Luc Lainé allows two last interventions before lunch. He reminds participants that government and CMHC representatives will be present for the entire duration of the meeting.

Mickel Robertson: This is just a comment. I have worked in finance and multi-unit rental buildings, and I find it difficult to understand how you function from your website and thus understand the parameters of your programs. I have difficulty with your approach, as you are the ones who decide how things will be done; in doing so, you leave little room for creativity in the field.

Vince Klyne: I am very aware of that and we receive several comments to that effect. It is not as simple as one thinks and I will work to improve things.

Adeline Basile: I have a comment. At the very beginning, we had the first houses in the ’60s and ’70s for some communities. After 50 years, we are still meeting needs. The government’s ultimate goal was to assimilate Indigenous people. Today, in 2018, we are still claiming houses, but initially, it was an initiative of the government and CMHC. Before being housing director, I was an officer. For several years I have been wondering: when are we going to meet to find other solutions? We talked about alternative solutions and now we talk about research, but we must go beyond what we can find as solutions. We must look at funding. The answers will not all come from the government to meet our needs, but initially, it was the government that came into our communities to give us houses. This initiative should be at the table of governments and other funders.

Luc Lainé summarizes by saying she encourages First Nations to be proactive in seeking solutions and that solutions must emerge from ourselves. He ends by recalling the busy afternoon agenda, the first item being the funding and financial management axis. The first presentation will be by the FNQLEDC. He also recalls that a short film from the Ekuanitshit community will be presented during lunch.

 

12:00 p.m.: Lunch

1:15 p.m.: Meeting Resumes

Luc Lainé welcomes everyone back to address the afternoon session. He introduces Mickel Robertson, Director of the FNQLEDC, whose presentation will take us until 2:30 p.m. In the meantime, he asks Doris Papatie to ask her question to the CMHC representatives following this morning’s session.

Doris Papatie (Kitcisakik): She raises the issue of adapting initiatives to the different regional stakes, given that realities are different. She observes that a community like hers does not enjoy the same status or funding as other First Nations communities. She stresses that research in communities must be conducted ethically and deplores the fact that communities like hers are often not well-represented. In her view, these are researchers thinking on behalf of First Nations.

She speaks of the catch-up to be done in reality. For her community, it would be important to improve housing conditions, given that its inhabitants live in the woods. She mentions that her community’s condition is in no way comparable to that of another community in Quebec or other provinces because they do not have running water or electricity. To this is added overcrowding. When it comes to equity, she suggests returning to the real issues.

She talks about the issues underlying the Viens Commission (hence the importance of housing for better living). She says her community benefits from SHQ funding and deplores the fact that it does not have access to CMHC funds and its partners. It would be relevant to address these questions.

Luc Lainé summarizes by saying government initiatives should be adapted to First Nations realities. There are no universal solutions. Secondly, research programs must be equipped with research ethics to allow everyone to participate fully and validate the information collected within First Nations.

He thanks her for her comment and invites Mickel Robertson to speak.

 

Opportunities Offered by Modern Financial Tools, Catch-up Phase, and Economic Development

Mickel Robertson introduces himself and mentions that he worked for a long time as a banker and financier within First Nations and banks, and introduces his colleague Steve Laveau. He mentions that his approach is biased toward figures and he will speak about the project itself. He hopes to inspire people through his presentation. He notes that they did the translation of his presentation themselves and apologizes for any small typos.

He proceeds with his PowerPoint presentation.

Questions and interventions regarding traditional funding methods arise.

Patrick Robertson: I note that some bands use their own funds to support members in accessing ownership.

Mickel Robertson: Yes, we will include that in our plan.

Patrick Robertson: Within our band’s programs regarding the real estate market, we have a renovation and rental support program.

Mickel Robertson: Yes, that contributes to staying afloat.

Mickel Robertson continues his presentation. The topic is now the management of a rental stock.

Luc Lainé asks for everyone’s attention and mentions there will be a fifteen-minute health break.

 

2:45 p.m.: Break

3:00 p.m.: Meeting Resumes

Mickel Robertson continues and concludes his presentation, leaving the audience with this message: “Do not leave this development project to others.”

Luc Lainé thanks Mr. Robertson and gives the floor to Steve Laveau from the FNQLEDC.

Steve Laveau invites the audience to subdivide into 6 small groups for a workshop. But first, he invites participants to watch a short one-minute video featuring Fred Pellerin, whose message is striking: “You have to close your eyes to see things differently.”

In small groups, the facilitator recalls that two questions were asked in fall 2017 (Trois-Rivières) and that these questions deserved attention. He recalls them for the purposes of the workshop.

(English-speaking workshop; Linda Sioui takes notes).

1) Would you be interested in investing in your community’s real estate? Why and how?

Group report:

The problem is the land. The Band Council gives the land.

It is less expensive to build a six-unit building than to have a waiting list of people wishing to have their own house. Need for new private partners (fall 2017) and access to new funding.

1. So, how to attract private investors?
   • Business owners must be targeted first. Possibly attract them by offering shares in a proportion of 49% for partners and 51% for the First Nation(s);
   • Need to change things in our way of doing business (buying a large parcel of land – need for development). Perform a transition;
   • Leasing of land;
   • Do business with prefabricated home companies if we can set aside a residential block;
   • Investors who come and build for us. In the following two years, we pay them back;
   • See if people in the community would be open to investing within their own community;
     • Bank limits to consider. Would we have to take this funding from our own funds?
     • Business people: would buy private houses and rent them (without having to declare anything).

 

Obstacles:

• Outside the reserve, once our house is paid for, it is possible to remortgage it. Within our communities, it is not possible for us to do so to buy something else or refinance it. We must eliminate this obstacle or bypass it;
• Long-term funding;
• Demographic considerations.

 

Solutions:

• Access more funding tools; o Possibility of mortgaging one’s house to have more funding to invest elsewhere;
  • See possibilities with the SOCCA (Société de crédit commercial autochtone);
  • Try to find banks willing to fund without guarantee.
• Control by First Nations;
• Depoliticization of housing; this is a priority; o Need to put in place a sector that will adopt a solid policy and a second authority that meets owners and helps them with their budget, etc.;
• Skills development (training, management, administration, quality construction);
• Being able to demonstrate a return on investment;
• Develop transparency and accountability;
• Improve financial literacy;
• Expand funding programs.

 

“It should be noted that comments from other groups were collected directly by FNQLEDC representatives.”

Luc Lainé speaks again and provides a brief conclusion to close the day’s work.

 

Meeting ends at 4:00 p.m.

 

---

 

Wednesday, November 28, 2018

The meeting begins at 9:00 a.m.

 

Luc Lainé provides a brief retrospective of the previous day’s meeting and the presentations given. The main messages to remember are:

• To plan well, you must clearly identify your needs;
• Timing is important. There is currently a willingness among all First Nations and the federal government to move forward and change things across the country;
• Public opinion is in favor of First Nations housing issues being resolved properly, correctly, and quickly;
• It is urgent to take a different path if we want to achieve different results;
• We will never be as well served as by ourselves;
• We must dare and move; solutions must emerge from within.

Then, he presents the day’s program, which will cover the second axis: skills and capacity development (the first axis on funding having been addressed the previous day).

Finally, for the last day, emphasis will be placed on the third axis: Governance and Service Delivery. On this subject, he mentions the presence of the Cree representative who has an interesting presentation on this issue.

For the lunch hour, there will be a presentation with Mr. Earl Commanda and Deborah Taylor from the First Nations Market Housing Fund.

Without further ado, he invites Rola Helou, from the First Nations Adult Education School Council, who presents the day’s program.

 

Regional Skills and Capacity Development Initiative

Ms. Helou mentions that she is very happy to have been invited by the AFNQL and adds that the day will be filled with workshops touching on the Skills Development axis. To this end, she refers to the participant workbook everyone received and mentions that the first part of the day will be devoted to validating the information collected last September during the meeting held in Wendake. She reassures participants by mentioning that they will be guided by her team throughout the day. Toward the end of the day, participants will be asked to look toward the future to envision what they want for their community.

Then, she introduces her school council team: Patrick Robertson, CoPH coordinator (Community of Practice in Housing); Mélodie Tremblay, coordinator for the Attestation of College Studies (AEC) program and support for educators. She is also responsible for the graduation ceremony at 5:30 p.m. Then, she introduces Diane Gabriel, who is orienting participants today, and finally Tanu Lusignan, Finance Director. She asks everyone to fill out the participant workbook, the data from which will be compiled and will be part of the report presented to the AFNQL. She gives the floor to Tanu Lusignan.

Tanu mentions that he is from the Haida Nation on the West Coast in British Columbia. He mentions that he serves as Finance Director for the school council. He thanks the Huron-Wendat Nation for receiving us on its territory. This day will allow us, in his view, to validate information and see how we can envision the future.

Regarding the day’s activities, each group will be composed of various representatives from all housing sectors. The first activity will focus on training already available for housing managers, the second on governance, and the third on training for tenants. First, you must identify training not previously identified by writing it in the participant workbook (pages 1 to 4). Subsequently, we will discuss this training with partners in view of our 3rd cohort. Then, after 15 minutes, we will return to the plenary to share as a large group. One person per group is designated for note-taking.

(Sharing by Antoine Grégoire, Delegate Chief of Uashat Mak Mani-Utenam).

Mr. Grégoire mentions that he has a background as a carpenter-joiner and that he is part of the latest cohort for the AEC in First Nations Housing Management Techniques in Quebec.

In his view, this training is beneficial for acquiring a better understanding of the issues and a better acquisition of certain rules and standards. Furthermore, he deplores the old bad habits of the field but ensures that the training helped him implement better practices in his community. He thanks the adult education council for this distance learning. In closing, he stresses the importance of not blushing before the decisions that must be made and thanks the participants for listening.

Rola Helou speaks about this training and the origin of the project. She mentions the collaboration of Cégep Garneau and other partners and makes the link with the first workshop, which consists of identifying training not currently offered but which could be linked to the AEC.

9:15 a.m.: Participants are subdivided into subgroups for workshops

10:00 a.m.: Return to plenary

Previously unidentified training needs

Group reports:

• Leadership, management of difficult clients and conflicts;
• Tender process management;
• Maintenance of air exchangers (Venmar) (2)^[1];
• Surveying systems for lot management (zoning);
• Processes to know for construction management;
• Information and responsibilities for new tenants;
• Entrepreneurship;
• Importance of partnership;
• Awareness for children (at a young age);
• Building maintenance (general training);
• Project management;
• Urban planning;
• Land management;
• Clarifying roles and responsibilities of occupants and the band council (ISC and CMHC) (training for housing staff to better train occupants);
• Formwork training;
• Concrete;
• Occupant health (Health Canada).

 

ACS and COPH Housing Community of Practice. Can ACS and COPH help meet certain needs?

Group reports:

• It is interesting but will never replace accumulated time (on-the-job learning). Experiences are so different from one community to another; it is experience that makes housing agents truly effective. However, it is excellent basic training;
• Training helps manage priorities and organize the housing agent’s tasks. Employees also benefit from their supervisor’s training, as supervisors are more oriented regarding their tasks, work is clear and precise, and their confidence is enhanced. The training is adapted to communities and helps with on-reserve housing management;
• The training is more or less adapted to the reality of field work faced by managers. Training designers should visit the field to take the pulse. It would also be more beneficial to incorporate people who work in housing within First Nations;
• Useful way to share information, but innovative ways must be found to energize Workplace. Many people are in the COPH but few post on Workplace;
• Too many notifications received in their email (Workplace software);
• Training provides more tools for housing managers to better understand people and advise them;
• Training allows seeing what is happening in other communities to manage crises, respond to crying needs and emergencies, and rent collection. This training helps improve work;
• Suggestion: have additional computer courses (e.g., Excel, etc.). Very profitable training for future business management.

 

Next exercise: What training exists (inventory) for owners and tenants?

Group reports:

• Inventory of recorded training. Mashteuiatsh provides guides to its occupants (how-to and what-to for maintaining their home);
• Tenant responsibilities;
• Basic maintenance for tenants; Basic training (ventilation and heating);
• Cleaning of the entire ventilation system.

 

Existing training for elected officials in housing management

Group reports:

• Strategic training for elected officials;
• Offer training on ethics in housing (behaviors and values) (2);
• Basic computer courses;
• Human Resources management courses;
• Basic training upon hiring elected officials;
• Training on interference;
• Respect for managers in their functions;
• At each election, provide training to elected officials to inform them of their roles and responsibilities, in order to avoid interference in administration.

 

For the following workshops, Tanu invites participants to open their workbooks to pages 9 to 11 (Table 3.1) to identify other needs and resources for housing manager training. The exercise will last ten minutes, followed by a break. We will return to the plenary after the break.

 

10:30 a.m.: Break

10:45 a.m.: Meeting resumes

Ms. Rola Helou invites Diane Gabriel to announce the winners of the $15 Tim Hortons gift card draw for filling out the online questionnaire. The winners are: Brad Flamand, Martine Bruneau, Jean-Marc Flamand, Tanya McKenzie, Darlene Chevrier, Edward Gabriel, and Josiane Mapachee.

Then, small group workshops and plenaries resume.

 

Housing manager needs (section 3.1)

Group reports:

• Available training is good but could be structured within a curriculum for more precision;
• RBQ (Régie du bâtiment du Québec) certification is a difficult process;
• Direct link with the job description of housing managers (defining the responsibility profile);
• Support for the implementation of policies and procedures;
• Equipping land and housing agents to be able to approach future tenants and owners (how to direct them toward social housing and home ownership);
• Training on tenant eviction procedures;
• Development of a welcome kit (tenant guide) on shared responsibilities (owner and occupant);
• Construction management (three types of inspection required by CMHC), training housing agents (basic training);
• In case of issues, construction budget management (major importance), tracking billing, site visits, builder follow-up to avoid cost overruns;
• Management of difficult clients (concepts for dealing with difficult clientele);
• ACS in architectural technology and civil engineering;
• Maintenance of properties and buildings;
• Training on developing an effective organizational chart, adapted to the community size (with job and task descriptions);
• Mental health and stress management training for council employees.

 

Patrick Robertson gives the floor to Tanu, who invites people to take pages 12 to 14 to complete them. Table 3.2.1: training needs for owners and occupants. Identifying challenges and best practices, as well as potential solutions. The workshop exercise will last 10 minutes, followed by a return to plenary.

 

Needs of owners and tenants

Group reports:

• Awareness for future generations: youth in school;
• Training on house maintenance (occupants) (e.g., how to maintain a Venmar);
• Specific training for tenants vs. owners (tenant obligations), minor maintenance vs. major maintenance (owner). Paying rent (which helps the community build a fund reserve);
• Training on the impacts of bad debts;
• Training on air exchangers (maintenance);
• Housing policies: having a framework housing policy adapted to everyone’s needs;
• Holding housing days;
• Training on the importance and maintenance of a budget, from which pride in housing stems;
• Training youth from high school on setting up a budget (healthy financial habits);
• Workshop or information session to demystify the steps and processes related to becoming an owner (to understand all steps of construction, budgeting, maintenance, etc.).

 

Tanu explains the next exercise, which consists of identifying training needs for elected officials (Governance and role of the band council). The exercise will last between 10 and 15 minutes (refer to section 3.31 of the participant workbook).

 

Training needs for elected officials and delegates

Group reports:

• Training for elected officials and housing agents to depoliticize administration (and avoid interference) so that strategic plans succeed within communities;
• Coaching and supporting agents and other stakeholders (following their training) for the completion of certain works and ensuring goal achievement;
• Budget training for politicians, as well as Section 95 regarding housing;
• Training to separate politics from administration;
• Properly targeting the training of elected officials to offer it as quickly as possible (at the start of their mandate);
• Since mandate lengths represent challenges, place more emphasis on information (what they need to know);
• Roles and responsibilities of elected officials and administration;
• Informing election aspirants on the roles and responsibilities of elected officials to avoid them making promises difficult to keep once elected;
• Transparent, equitable, exemplary elected officials; supporting officials toward the adoption of a code of ethics;
• General meetings where all elected officials are present to inform and/or train them depending on the objectives;
• Having information kits ready for them;
• Skills profile (communication plan);
• Knowing existing laws on land management;
• Conflict and dispute resolution;
• Basic training on the Indian Act;
• Scope of administrative agreements currently signed with departments;
• Governance (accountability, transparency);
• Working with the population to develop political science courses (so they are well-acquainted with local, regional, national, and international issues – in some cases).

 

Tanu speaks again to guide participants in filling out page 17 (working document), at the bottom, in the area highlighted in blue. This involves identifying three training priorities as immediate needs (essential training) in fields touching governance, owners/landlords, and housing managers, coordinators, and directors. Thus, three priorities per field for a total of nine. The exercise will last 15 to 20 minutes and lead into lunch.

 

Identified priority needs

Group report:

• Administration;
• Client approach;
• Promoting education.
• Patrick Robertson informs participants that they can always identify these priorities later in their workbook, as the latter will be collected at the end of the meeting.

Luc Lainé announces a presentation during lunch by the First Nations Market Housing Fund.

 

12:00 p.m.: Lunch

1:00 p.m.: Meeting resumes

Tanu Lusignan announces the afternoon schedule.

The first workshop will focus on opportunities (Table 4.01), found on pages 19 to 21 in the participant workbook. Participants are called to review and discover new constraints and opportunities, in connection with those listed in Wendake last September. The exercise will last 20 minutes, followed by a return to plenary.

 

Opportunities

Group reports:

• More structured regional tables and more varied subjects, and taking advantage of these meetings where managers are mobilized to dedicate a half-day or a full day of training to each table (e.g., one-day meeting for the regional table and a half-day for training) to maximize budgets and people’s travel;
• ACS is a good tool. Trying to find ways to make it more attractive to draw new cohorts and interest people in taking this training. Maintaining their interest. Making advancement possibilities and better recognition visible;
• Willingness to raise awareness among youth regarding housing (with a vision for the future);
• Ensuring succession planning;
• Team conciliation in certain communities, and creating more links between different departments (employment, housing, finance, etc.) to bring better expertise to housing agents;
• Governments seem more “open” to First Nations, but not at the level the Nations wish at this moment;
• More team meetings on building (all community sectors) for new ways of doing things;
• Knowledge transfer (for high staff turnover);
• Implementing tools to measure training effectiveness; management tools (for better evaluation);
• Starting a construction company with local people considering the carpentry/woodworking training offered at the CDFM (Centre de développement et de la formation et de la main-d’œuvre) in Wendake (added value for the community). Creating wealth by hiring local people and developing expertise to start a construction company.

 

Constraints and limitations

Group reports:

• Continuous training is not always valued;
• Communities and individuals are not all at the same level (constrained in developing training);
• Interference from the political level in administration causing uncertainty; (2)
• Elections held every two years: projects can fall through with the election of a new council. This creates uncertainty;
• Willingness to change things;
• Trying to see the positive side of continuous training;
• Social problems experienced by people.

 

Tanu presents the next exercise on page 23 of the workbook, “Looking Forward.” Participants are called to project themselves to the year 2024 and identify elements of reflection on strategies that can lead us there. Where do we want to be by that date? The exercise will last 20 minutes.

 

Looking Forward (Year 2024)

Group reports:

• Application of strict policies well-adapted to the context and focused on our targets (looking toward 2028);
• Defined strategies, starting with individual support. Personal priorities have been revised (housing at the top of the list);

• Emphasis placed on the next generation (high school youth), aware and educated youth (regarding budget planning);
• Well-trained decision-makers; (2)
• Decision-makers aware of the impact of heavy recurring deficits;
• Necessity of doing things differently to achieve better results;
• Maximization of government aid, the private sector, and philanthropic foundations (we did not wait for the government; we proceeded on our own);
• Several sources of autonomous revenue;
• Resolving the language barrier. Finding ways to communicate better;
• Everyone is trained. Communication system well-placed. Well-informed community and, all together, we have adopted a housing policy with well-determined objectives;
• Once the policy is adopted, administration handles it without political interference (independent structure);
• Constant revisions to adjust the policy based on member needs;
• Support from the population;
• Having a training point of contact, also serving as a directory for different expertise, which can be shared between communities to meet all needs (911 Housing Capacity Building);
• Occupants / tenants made aware (partnerships);
• Removing Internet barriers (all communities equipped with an Internet connection allowing effective communication), especially regarding the deployment of new management tools (Integrated Social Housing Management System, ISHMS) (crucial for communities);
• Assistance from SEDAC;
• Plan adopted and consistently applied. Not letting obstacles get in the way. Political support (non-interference). Tenant awareness;
• Jobs created for community inhabitants (who will be able to pay their rent, generating a fund reserve for the council);
• In 2024, we will be led and managed by women (*laughter from the assembly*);
• Importance of developing and promoting First Nations institutions able to offer training (e.g., Kiuna and CDFM);
• Communities having determined their needs and workforce (well-targeted needs and emphasis placed on training linked to these needs);
• More continuous training within the community to continue meeting needs;
• Plastering and house wall painting courses (great needs);
• Local and uniform mobilization across different sectors (not working in silos);
• Central actor to coordinate everything (and keep the focus).

 

At the end of the workshops, Patrick Robertson presents the COPH (Community of Practice in Housing). He talks about the Workplace platform where community members can share information. To be added to the platform, use the URL link (www.coph.ca). Once the information is filled out, new members will be added.

Rola Helou takes the floor and shares information on her organization’s mandate. She answers questions about construction training topics (including plastering). This course is 800 hours. She adds that she can support communities in seeking professional training for adults if people are interested in organizing cohorts.

Gilles Leclerc asks if, following this training, his people will be accredited by the CCQ.

Ms. Helou mentions there are two ways to obtain CCQ (Commission de la construction du Québec) accreditation:

1. Complete professional training (Diploma of Vocational Studies, DVS). Then, find a job in the training field and accumulate hours. She adds that the CCQ constantly looks at regional needs and where there are needs (e.g., less than 10% of people trained), it can “open the pool” in the region. When the pool is “open,” interested people have a 24-hour window to apply. Then, the CCQ has two prerequisites: ASP construction (attestation of professional specialization) (which gives health and safety cards), and the applicant must have the prerequisites as if entering the required professional training, depending on the trade. For example, for plastering, the applicant must have Secondary 3 – English, French, Math. Or, if over 18, they must pass the General Development Test (GDT). Then, they must see an employer to be hired. If the employer agrees, the person is hired. After 150 hours of work, the employee obtains their cards.

 

Those are the two ways. It is not 150 hours for all trades. Each trade is different.

Other question (unidentified speaker from Pessamit): Regarding Indigenous people, an agreement exists with the CCQ for trades; if you obtain 6,000 work hours in the community (e.g., as a carpenter-joiner), you have access to the “journeyman” exam. No DVS needed. Likewise, completing 2,000 work hours with all machinery to become a heavy machinery operator.

Regarding painting and plastering training, a 420-hour course is offered at the Jonquière School Board (custom training). The 420-hour course ends next week. Students will have an ASP allowing them to access work in a community. However, the ASP does not grant CCQ cards, but after works in Pessamit equivalent to 6,000 hours, they can access a “journeyman” exam. About ten youth benefited from this opportunity, as we have a labor shortage in this trade.

Rola Helou mentions that ASP is a professional certificate.

Alain Murray: To answer Gilles Leclerc’s question, at the Samuel de Champlain School Board, hours are recognized by the CCQ (pool open or not) to encourage future workers. This is an agreement between the professional training center and the CCQ. It remains to be seen if this is available in other trades.

(Unidentified English speaker): We had the CCQ come to administer the test, but our people were never able to pass. It is not that simple to pass. The exam is quite complex and we haven’t really had help for our workers a year later. My employees gave up on the idea of working off-reserve for this reason. However, they recognize our workers’ hours. Our workers completed the necessary hours.

Rola Helou mentions she will check with them to find a way to “unblock” this impasse.

Martine Bruneau: A First Nation council cannot give out CCQ cards. We have a contact with the CCQ (Jacinthe Poulin). We go to accounting which gives us the number of hours worked by each employee. We sign it and list the work done. Then, we deal with a company in the city that gives them 150 hours, after which our workers get their cards. You just have to offer a company the contract, provided they hire our labor.

Gilles Leclerc: We had employees from our community and were unable to have our people employed by a company to obtain their cards.

Benoit Sioui responds to Gilles Leclerc, telling him he could require the hiring of a certain percentage of community labor.

Martine Bruneau adds that at the federal level, no cards are needed to work.

Patrick Robertson announces a 15-minute break.

 

2:40 p.m.: Break

3:05 p.m.: Meeting resumes

Tanu mentions it would be pertinent to invite a CCQ representative to answer the many questions, specifically to find ways to bypass the system so our people get their hours accredited.

He notes that a Cree representative will join us tomorrow to talk about governance. He mentions his presence at the Assembly of First Nations Forum and the British Columbia approach (top-down) versus the Quebec approach (bottom-up). While introducing reflection on the future, he refers to page 28 of the workbook (6.1), the implementation of training. He invites participants to take 10 minutes to read this section and reflect on potential answers for the plenary session.

Patrick Robertson takes comments regarding training and a potential organization to handle its implementation.

 

Vision for the Future (2024)

Group reports:

• All tribal councils could have a training branch and an itinerant trainer attached to it;
• All tribal councils could link with the school board and other organizations to offer training (e.g., ACS – architecture, engineering, carpentry, plumbing, etc.) within communities;
• Identifying needs at the base level;
• Checking if other communities have similar training needs (French and English speaking) to obtain enough students for a cohort;
• Building a training plan, or adapting an existing one, based on identified needs;
• Implementing a delivery method (in-person, Internet, internship or hybrid training, etc.);
• Creating an environment favoring learning and support;
• Valuing graduates within communities (recognition). Celebrating educational success;
• Importance for the council to send the same message in the community (hiring based on acquired training);

• Importance of the tribal council and their role in training delivery;
• A First Nations regional organization could be responsible for coordinating these trainings to avoid duplication by communities;
• Role of CMHC or the First Nations Market Housing Fund. They could “feed” provincial groups (e.g., research by CMHC contributing to training or others). In short, having a regional and coordinated approach;
• With the 2028 target, training would be given by an Indigenous organization with certification power. It is not realistic or viable to have different training in each community. Need for uniformity;
• Openness to training outside the province;
• Openness to training not exclusive to First Nations;
• Learning our needs (workforce plan);
• De-privatizing contracts (as it is less expensive to do it oneself).

 

Tanu explains the final part of the workshops (workbook exercise 7.0, page 30). This involves reflecting on the possibility of managing a housing stock outside the community (necessary tools, what is needed to achieve this, etc.). What types of off-reserve housing do you want? Housing for your students or housing for your people traveling to the city for medical care?

 

Off-reserve housing stock management

Group reports:

• Determining what services for off-reserve members consist of; as a housing manager, are we able to manage off-reserve housing? Do we need an outside organization to help us? This reflection is needed;
• Supplementary training on provincial laws and regulations (tenant rights – Régie du logement) on what exists off-reserve;
• Need for economic development training, giving priority to First Nations members then non-members to generate additional revenue;
• Offering local programs to encourage members to rent on the community outskirts and have support for this (aid in reserve expansion);
• Building off-reserve housing by creating non-profit organizations (NPOs) (to benefit from provincial grants, e.g., Accès logis, for off-reserve Indigenous people in collaboration with the Société d’habitation du Québec (SHQ), similar to the Waskahegen Corporation);
• Proximity to the community; local management links;
• Part-time managers in these off-reserve housing stocks;
• Loss of privileges for off-reserve Indigenous people; is it truly an incentive?

 

Mr. Gilles Leclerc remarks that having off-reserve housing may not be an incentive for First Nations members, considering they “lose their privileges somewhat.”

Jean-Pierre Petiquay: What is the Waskahegen Corporation?

Guy Latouche responds that Waskahegen – Habitat Métis du Nord is an organization that has managed approximately 2,000 housing units for Indigenous people across Quebec for 46 years. They are present in 117 municipalities. What is slightly concerning is that these are theoretically houses for Indigenous people and, as noted yesterday, it is not necessarily First Nations members found in these units. For this reason, there must be dialogue with the SHQ. There is a greater desire to exercise control over off-reserve housing for First Nations members. There do not seem to be chiefs or elected officials on their board of directors. However, they seem to do good work in some aspects: often their buildings are in good condition. They seem to have quite a bit of money. They have a CMHC – SHQ – Habitat Métis du Nord agreement, where tenant rent is set at 25% of their income.

Patrick Robertson hands the microphone to Tanu Lusignan for the closing remarks.

Tanu thanks the participants on behalf of the whole team for the comments in drafting and developing the strategy. (*Applause*). Then, he announces the next meeting, expected in February, to continue the dialogue on different issues. For that, it will be possible to invite a CCQ representative.

He ends by inviting everyone to the cocktail dinner in the Vigneault room to celebrate the cohort’s graduation.

Patrick ends with a draw and asks participants to leave their workbooks for collection.

Luc Lainé thanks the School Board in Adult Education. He asks people to arrive tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. to address the 3rd axis, Governance.

 

The meeting ends at 4:00 p.m.

 

---

             

Thursday, November 29, 2018

The meeting begins at 9:05 a.m.

Luc Lainé presents the morning program. This morning’s topic is the 3^rd axis of the strategy: Governance and Service Delivery.

He takes this opportunity to congratulate the graduates of the housing officers course and mentions that yesterday’s graduation evening was a great success. He also commends the school board’s initiative.

He mentions that the workshop work carried out the previous day was very useful and that participants worked very hard. This morning, there will be three presentations and, without further delay, he introduces Roxanne Gravelle, Housing Manager, Headquarters, ISC.

(PowerPoint presentation by Ms. Gravelle).

Ms. Gravelle concludes her presentation and asks two fundamental questions to the participants:

1. Do you believe in a full transfer of responsibility, control, and management of housing and infrastructure to First Nations, for First Nations? AND
2. Based on your experiences, what could governance look like for the Quebec region?

 

Luc Lainé asks if the participants have any questions.

Guy Latouche: What does the timeline look like regarding the transfer of governance to First Nations?

Roxanne Gravelle: From 4 to 10 years, depending on government models. However, we can follow the pace of the First Nations.

Adeline Basile: I think the work should be done internally. How could we adapt further to meet our needs? Regarding innovation, models have already been discussed, but we must work harder to reduce the ecological footprint. In our principles, we have always thought of future generations. Therefore, we should gather our innovative ideas focused on the next generation.

Luc Lainé asks if there are any other questions.

Benoit Sioui: I have been following First Nations debates for at least 30 years and I hear about housing. Could we set up a small commission with a few employees to work on this issue, as it is a major file, without it being a heavy bureaucracy?

(Unidentified speaker): Regarding the questions asked this morning, when we talk about transfer of responsibility, we are aware that housing is a priority. We talk about transfer of responsibility, but land jurisdiction is affected. When we rebuild our Nations, we need territories and space to flourish. We must not “stand still.” Consequently, we must define the scope of financial responsibility. We are also talking about control of the territory and all the “global” development that could follow. Hunting territories are not considered in housing matters.

Luc Lainé: What you are saying is very interesting. Do you have a suggestion regarding governance? Who should lead this file?

Doris Papatie asks if these structures will meet the needs of communities, as several models have been experimented with. Will First Nations have counterparts to whom they will be accountable? According to her, it would be preferable not to “cling” to accountability conditions as First Nations currently know them. There are ways to agree on methods of doing things.

Chief Lance Haymond: I hope not to have to spend much time determining which governance structure will be the most relevant, because much work remains to be done. Referring to the discussions held in Trois-Rivières, a heavy housing structure is not necessary. What is needed is skills development supported by strong tribal councils, as well as a vehicle that will ensure maximum redistribution of funds to communities and prioritize, while ensuring a certain flexibility of funds. The FNQLHSSC could possibly take on the housing component, which is a primary determinant of health. We need long-term commitment from the government regarding funding and sustainable development. We must conduct an analysis to see what control means, while discussing personnel and skills. A minimalist governance structure to serve the needs of the 10 Nations of Quebec. Asking people what they want is a good step forward. We have the necessary tools in Quebec, including strong tribal councils, good partners, and good commissions. Everything is there. What remains for us to do is find what works for us. The housing file must be managed, for the most part, at the local level. All our efforts must be directed toward that end.

Roxanne Gravelle: I do not believe the government is trying to transfer anything. In the case at hand, everything is to be developed. Governance must be interpreted in its broad sense.

Luc Lainé notes four people wishing to speak. He asks them to be brief, as there are 3 other presentations.

Chief Adrienne Jérôme: I would opt for a commission, because we already have one in place and we have a good regional picture of the situation, with all community needs. The best structure is a commission, in order to have a clearer picture.

Adéline Basile: She speaks of two cases. The first is the repatriation of a warehouse from La Romaine to Mingan. Engineers from Sept-Îles had failed to take photos and measurements of the mezzanine, which was not done. In short, this community mentions not having engineering resources, which complicates services.

The other case concerns drug problems that the community faces during housing allocation. She concludes by emphasizing that governance links occupants, health, etc., and that it would be good to have a commission that takes our current realities into account.

Charles-Édouard Verreault (Mashteuiatsh): We try to feed CMHC as much as possible to have greater autonomy, but we should take charge more and more, with effective groupings for all; if there are several of us together, it creates a certain strength. We rely heavily on our own governance.

Martine Bruneau: I do not agree with the others. I have too much work without having to manage an additional housing portfolio. My chief is on several committees as well, as am I, and we do not want additional work. We are not ready to take on more.

Luc Lainé gives the final word to Ms. Gravelle, who thanks the audience. Then, he introduces Suzie Nepton and Marjolaine Sioui from the FNQLHSSC to look at existing models that work well.

 

Towards Greater Autonomy in Health and Social Services: Marjolaine Sioui and Suzie Nepton, First Nations of Quebec and Labrador Health and Social Services Commission (FNQLHSSC)

(PowerPoint presentation by Marjolaine Sioui and Suzie Nepton).

Following this presentation, Luc Lainé thanks the presenters and suggests not taking questions for now. He then invites the next presenter, Martin Desgagné, as well as his colleague, Eric Gilpin (Wemindji) from the Cree Nation Government, to give the next presentation.

 

Governance Model at the Tribal Level: Martin Desgagné, Cree Nation Government (CNG)

(PowerPoint presentation by Mr. Desgagné).

At the end of this presentation, Luc Lainé thanks him and mentions that there will be no questions. Instead, he introduces the next presentation, after which a short break will be taken. Finally, a workshop will conclude the meeting.

Mr. Latouche takes the floor to provide some comments on the definition of governance. He mentions a 19-page report on this definition. As for the Larousse dictionary, it defines it as: “Action of governing, manner of managing, administering.” He adds that the two questions previously presented by Ms. Gravelle will be the subject of a final workshop to collect participant comments on the matter.

 

11:15 a.m.: Break

11:30 a.m.: Meeting Resumes

A draw is conducted by SEDAC and the winners are: Glenn Mathias, Romeo Menicappo. Third winner: Stella Moar. Fourth winner: Peggy Petiquay. Fifth winner: Luc Lainé.

Participants are called to reflect on the definition of governance, as given by the FNQLHSSC representatives before the break:

« The traditions (norms, values, culture, language) and institutions (formal infrastructures, organizations, practices) that a community or a Nation uses to make decisions and achieve its goals. At the heart of the notion of governance is the creation of effective, accountable, and legitimate systems and processes where citizens express their interests, exercise their rights and responsibilities, and reconcile their differences. »

Participants are asked to divide into three tables for the final workshop.

English-speaking workshop (Linda Sioui takes notes).